pagan continuity hypothesis

And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. When you start testing, you find things. These were Greek-- I've seen them referred to as Greek Vikings by Peter Kingsley, Vikings who came from Ionia. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. I include that line for a reason. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. The Immortality Key has its shortcomings. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. Thank you. I mean, I wish it were easier. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The - Chartable So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. And I think that's an important distinction to make. Revolutionary Left Radio: Early Christianity: Psychedelics, Ancient Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. The Immortality Key: Book Overview (Brian Muraresku) And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. Because for many, many years, you know, Ruck's career takes a bit of a nosedive. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? So somewhere between 1% and 49%. 8 "The winds, the sea . For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. Because my biggest question is, and the obvious question of the book is, if this was happening in antiquity, what does that mean for today? I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. For those who didn't have the time or the money or the temerity to travel all the way to Eleusis from Spain, here's your off-site campus, right? This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. And please just call me Charlie. And nor do I think that you can characterize southern Italy as ground zero for the spirit of Greek mysticism, or however you put it. And that the proof of concept idea is that we need to-- we, meaning historians of the ancient world, need to bring all the kinds of resources to bear on this to get better evidence and an interpretive frame for making sense of it. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. That's how we get to Catalonia. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. So I spent 12 years looking for that data, eventually found it, of all places, in Catalonia in Spain in this 635-page monograph that was published in 2002 and for one reason or another-- probably because it was written in Catalan-- was not widely reported to the academic community and went largely ignored. Now, the great scholar of Greek religion, Walter Burkert, you quote him as musing, once-- and I'm going to quote him-- he says, "it may rather be asked, even without the prospect of a certain answer, whether the basis of the mysteries, they were prehistoric drug rituals, some festival imp of immortality which, through the expansion of consciousness, seemed to guarantee some psychedelic beyond." Brought to you by OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia And nor did we think that a sanctuary would be one of the first things that we construct. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. Thank you. There he is. And I answer it differently every single time. Who were the Saints? And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. Which is a very weird thing today. I wonder if you're familiar with Wouter Hanegraaff at the University of Amsterdam. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. Again, how did Christianity take hold in a world with such a rich mystical tradition? And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. I expect we will find it. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. What's the wine? And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. "Pagan" and "Christian" Marriage: The State of the Question And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More (#646) - The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss 3 Annual "Best of" Apple Podcasts 900+ Million episodes downloaded I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. And what, if any, was the relationship between those ancient Greeks and the real religion of the earliest Christians, who might call the paleo-Christians. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. But I don't hold-- I don't hang my hat on that claim. Maybe I have that wrong. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! And there were probably other Eleusises like that to the east. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. . So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. Here's the big question. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? "The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity" That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Peloton Row premium rower for an efficient workout, and You Need A Budget cult-favorite money management app.. Rick Rubin is a nine-time GRAMMY-winning producer, one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and the most successful producer in any genre, according to Rolling Stone. I mean, about 25 years ago, actually. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . Tim Ferriss Show #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More. Where you find the grain, you may have found ergot. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. And so how far should this investigation go? Where are the drugs? And what it has to do with Eleusis or the Greek presence in general, I mean, again, just to say it briefly, is that this was a farmhouse of sorts that was inland, this sanctuary site. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. Which turns out, it may be they were. I don't think we have found it. And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. I mean, I think the book makes it clear. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis - ResearchGate And at the same time, when I see a thirst, especially in young people, for real experience, and I see so many Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, obviously, what comes to my mind is how, if at all, can psychedelics enhance faith or reinvent Christianity. So this is interesting. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. Like in a retreat pilgrimage type center, or maybe within palliative care. What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Continuity Questions - 36 Questions About Continuity - QuestionDB So it wasn't just a random place to find one of these spiked wines. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. Brian C. Muraresku (@BrianMuraresku) / Twitter Now, I've had experiences outside the Eucharist that resonate with me. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. In fact, something I'm following up on now is the prospect of similar sites in the Crimea around the Black Sea, because there was also a Greek presence there. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion - Feb 22, 2023 In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit,  joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name There was an absence of continuity in the direction of the colony as Newport made his frequent voyages to and . 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . So let's talk about the future of religion, and specifically the future of Roman Catholicism. And I don't know what that looks like. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. So what do we know about those rituals? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . I know that that's a loaded phrase. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. Like the wedding at Cana, which my synopsis of that event is a drunkard getting a bunch of drunk people even more drunk. Where does Western civilization come from? Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. Pagan polemicists reversed the Biblical story of the Israelites' liberation from Egyptian bondage, portraying a negative image of Israelite origins and picturing them as misanthropes and atheists. That is, by giving, by even floating the possibility of this kind of-- at times, what seems like a Dan Brown sort of story, like, oh my god, there's a whole history of Christianity that's been suppressed-- draws attention, but the real point is actually that you're not really certain about the story, but you're certain is that we need to be more attentive to this evidence and to assess it soberly. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. And then at some point they go inland. The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? I appreciate this. I mean, so it was Greek. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. BRIAN MURARESKU: It just happens to show up. It's this 22-acre site of free-standing limestone, some rising 20 feet in the air, some weighing 50 tons. All that will be announced through our mailing list. It would have parts of Greek mysticism in it, the same Greek mysteries I've spent all these years investigating, and it would have some elements of what I see in paleo-Christianity. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. Was Moses high? Studies linking religion and drugs gain traction He decides to get people even more drunk. I'm not. This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. What is it about that formula that captures for you the wisdom, the insight that is on offer in this ancient ritual, psychedelic or otherwise? The Tim Ferriss Show - #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App So there's lots of interesting details here that filter through. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. To sum up the most exciting parts of the book: the bloody wine of Dionysius became the bloody wine of Jesus - the pagan continuity hypothesis - the link between the Ancient Greeks of the final centuries BC and the paleo-Christians of the early centuries AD - in short, the default psychedelic of universal world history - the cult of . The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. What was the wine in the early Eucharist? Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? And she happened to find it on psilocybin. That's just everlasting. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. But even if they're telling the truth about this, even if it is accurate about Marcus that he used a love potion, a love potion isn't a Eucharist. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. You won't find it in many places other than that. Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. Interesting. In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? I understand the appeal of that. And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. Did the Early Church Use Psychedelics? - Substack And maybe in these near-death experiences we begin to actually experience that at a visceral level. And I don't know if there's other examples of such things. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. OK, now, Brian, you've probably dealt with questions like this. And so that opened a question for me. CHARLES STANG: My name is Charles Stang, and I'm the director of the Center for the Study of World Religions here at Harvard Divinity School. CHARLES STANG: Right. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines.