Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). It's just idiotic. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. 2. But that's not the half of it. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. But he still wasn't sure after reading the news story, or even aftervisiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanationindicated. As 1999 approached, what little was known about Eyes Wide Shut was almost indecently tantalising. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. ANSWERS: 4. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. Perhaps the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut began when the maker of the film, Stanley Kubrick, died only days after the first viewing of it. Orgy? I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. ), Stalepie writes:"the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. Please either stop or> shape up. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. WebEyes Wide Shut. And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. > But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! In a buddhist sutra, Sakyamuni, criticized the compulsive mental masturbators and referred to them as people "counting ganges sands." Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. Ha ha hah, ha ha hah! >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. ME> Again. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. How? Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. Statanic mass? But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? at the > ceremony/orgy. Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. OT. To take Tess or Barry Lyndon in the same context is perhaps moreappropriate to various periods stylistically divergent from an intentor device for Picasso to depict women;- a later advancement thatneedn't further qualification than figures posed in gold, as was aliteral premium exacted upon proceeds, so written by one later model,over stipends derived from the estate. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. ", "Victor what can I say. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. Put on some headphones and listen. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", Ditto. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. She helps Bill at the <<<<<<<<, > In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. Put on some headphones and listen. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. What a joke to call them "philosophers." No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. Statanic mass? Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Before warning him, the It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. Was she the women at the party?" Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. How? It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. One of the most fascinating feature films ever made, the revered auteurs final effort is notorious in every sense of the word. What a joke to call them "philosophers." We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. 0. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one night when his wife admits to having had adulterous thoughts. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." But maybe he's just practicing forhis Boddhisatva qualification tests.- you know, the 'enlightening thegreat unwashed masses' thing. The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? 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